For our October profile, we are highlighting Leanne Roulson, an environmental policy specialist, fisheries biologist, and the current president of the American Fisheries Society! Leanne has over 20 years of experience working in natural resources consulting and and building consensus with stakeholder groups for public lands use, aquatic conservation, and watershed-scale lands management. She is also passionate about science communication, teaching a course on the topic at Montana State University and serving as a Climate Ambassador for AFS.
CURRENT POSITION(S)
Senior Scientist/ Consultation Biologist for a consulting firm (Salus Resources, Inc.)
GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF YOUR WORK/RESEARCH
I review projects for their potential to impact Endangered Species Act (ESA) listed species. I have also done many environmental assessments for all kinds of ecosystem impacts such as changes in water quality, habitat, wetlands, or river function/ hydrology. These are more landscape scale assessments.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN FISHERIES?
I officially got a job as a fisheries biologist in 1998, but prior to that I taught high school biology (and earth science and physics… it was a small school) with an emphasis on ecology. As part of that job, my school was in the floodplain of the Yellowstone River (because that kind of land is cheap!) and I got involved in a state-wide river monitoring project with my students. We would walk to the river and collect water quality, macroinvertebrate, and geomorphology data.
HOW DID YOU GET INTO THE FIELD?
My interest has always been in the waterbodies more so than the fish (sacrilege!). I figure if we take care of the river (ocean, bayou, lake, estuary) system, then the fish will be ok. The fish are way cool though, and I really enjoy seeing fish and other aquatic critters. I grew up in Louisiana and spent a lot of time on rivers, swamps, and bayous canoeing and camping. My dad also had a fishing camp and we would spend weekends out there shrimping or fishing. He would bring home coolers of redfish and I’d help scale them. I can also shuck oysters, peel shrimp, and get the tails out of crawfish whole. Skills. Seafood is a big part of the culture in New Orleans. It’s a big city, but people know the seasons by the seafood. There’s oyster season, crawfish season, times when the crabs are good, etc. So, I suppose I am just continuing that connection in what I am interested in and value. I live in Montana now, and I see more of a hunting focus when it comes to seasons and connections, but angling is definitely part of the culture here too.
WHO HAS BEEN YOUR FAVORITE MENTOR OR ROLE MODEL?
The women mentors have mostly been outside of science, mainly because I was not aware of many IN science. I admire women who didn’t take no for an answer, despite how often that answer was given. I learned more about Ruth Bader Ginsburg a few years before her death, and she was one serious-ass woman. They questioned her right to attend law school. So, she stayed and graduated at the top of her class. By the way, she did this with a young child (really a baby) at home. They didn’t want to hire her at a law firm, so she taught at a university, because teaching was something women were allowed to do. They didn’t want to let her present her own case arguments, because “no one would take a woman seriously.” So she developed a level of knowledge and understanding of her causes/ cases that couldn’t be matched and they recognized that she was the best person to speak. She also inspires me because she was able to present decisions in a way that cut to the real crux of the issue. I like policy, and many times policy discussions are coated in all kinds of baloney that has nothing to do with the real decision. RBG was able to speak clearly and pare issues down to the key components so that her arguments had demonstrated strength.
I see many of the environmental justice issues being argued as benefiting from RBG (and others) who clear away the fog of politics and show the issues for what they are. Poor water quality or less access to fresh foods in poor areas leads to less healthy people who live farther away from adequate healthcare, so they stay less healthy. Less healthy people may miss school or work, so they or their children do not have the opportunity to advance. Recognizing and removing these basic obstacles are critical to achieving environmental and social equity. That may seem removed from fisheries, but fisheries science would benefit immensely if we recruited from all aspects of society, not just the sectors fortunate enough to have access to opportunity because of where they live or, as I so often heard in the south, who their daddy was.
WHO HAD THE GREATEST INFLUENCE ON YOU?
In some ways the people who influenced my career the most were the ones who initially expressed skepticism. I wasn’t sure what area I wanted to study for my MS, so I interviewed with several departments related to water, geomorphology, environmental engineering, and fish and wildlife. I had 3 professors offer me the “non-thesis option” because “it might be something I could handle better”. I suspect that they were not impressed by a high school teacher who wanted to go to graduate school, despite my GRE scores. So, I did not pursue degrees in their departments.
Instead, I worked for 2 fisheries graduate students on their field projects and assisted a professor on a publishing project to get my foot in the door. The co-op unit leader, Bob White, helped me get these interim positions until he had a project available. Dr. White was a great advisor and put me in for a teaching assistantship to help pay for my program, and thanks to that I graduated debt-free. He also was an excellent editor and learning how to write better was a critical element for getting my first and subsequent jobs. He also told me in no uncertain terms that I HAD to join AFS. Look where that got me.
As a parent, my children and just having children has affected me and my career. Seeing how much more accepting they are of gender differences and personal expression is very encouraging to me. They give me positive things to look toward for our world. They are not children anymore, and I appreciate discussing issues like climate, land use, and politics with them. They also clue me in when my world view is perhaps a little dated. Neither one wants to be a biologist, but both really value the outdoors, public lands, and resource conservation (so I did ok there). The women in fisheries who influenced me were the peers and coworkers who I bitched with and laughed with. They know who they are. We support each other through struggles (career and life stuff) and many are now in the position to be mentors to others.
WHAT WAS THE BEST ADVICE YOU’VE GOTTEN?
When I got out of school and was looking for a job I was already married and fairly settled where we are. Moving to find a job was not in the cards for me. We could spend all kinds of time on the societal aspects of this, but that was my situation, and I was ok with it. A friend of mine who was an exceptional scholar graduated at the same time and we joked about taking the job as opposed to picking a job (from more than one offered). That’s not really advice, but I am glad that I took the (one and only offered) job with someone I didn’t know, but who I thought I could tell would be a good boss. It was serious grunt work from the start, but doing what needed doing and doing it well helped me keep the job and grow it into something I really enjoyed. So, my advice would be make sure you like the people you’ll be working with as well as what you’ll be doing. If you are in the field or spending days in an office with the same folks, it’s important that you feel like a welcome contributor and that you see the value in what you are doing (even if it is grunt work). Even the best project with a bunch of jerks is not going to generate quality outcomes. You won’t work your best, and consequently others’ impression of you will be poor. But, a good group of people is going to motivate you to do better work. You’ll be happier, you will be more likely to interact with your coworkers, and an interactive group is more likely to be creative and get stuff done.
The other best advice I’ve gotten is to always be on the lookout for the next step. That doesn’t mean I am always looking to jump ship, but it means that I try to keep my eyes open to activities (volunteering, teaching, side projects, classes) that sound interesting and say “yes” more often. When we talk about how we got where we are, there are often threads of serendipity in there. By being open and looking for “what’s next”, I think a person is more likely to encounter that kind of “happy accident” that can redirect you in a positive way.
DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE FOR NEW WOMEN ENTERING THE FIELD?
Similar to what I said above, look for your people. Do your best to find work with people who value your worth and work with you to get good outcomes. Do not think of your life needs or career needs as external to your job. Your job is part of your life, so think about and talk about how your job fits with your life with the people in your life. This includes life partners as well as coworkers and supervisors.
You will have to demonstrate your worth for sure, so put your best out there and work to hone your skills and knowledge. Once you have established yourself as a contributor to the group/ agency/ company, think about what you need to make the next step. Then, think about where/ how you can get what you need and discuss it with your employer. Is it training? A different work schedule? Research it and summarize what you need, what you will do to keep your employer’s needs met, and how you’d like to approach the idea. Make it easy for your boss to say yes. This goes for life needs as well. When I had my first child, I worked with my boss to find work I could do from home (this was way before the remote working model). I did data entry for about 6 months until I could come back to the office more consistently. My husband and I both worked with our employers to set complementary schedules so each of us had time at home with the kids (we have 2 now) and also had time at our places of work. It is hard to ask for things, but I do believe that reasonable requests should be met with support or at least a discussion or negotiation. If the pandemic has taught us one thing, it’s that work can be done in a variety of ways on a variety of schedules and that life/ family needs are real and need to be taken into account.
WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE THING ABOUT WORKING IN FISHERIES?
I love being outside. Mostly I only get to do that recreationally now, but I live in a wonderful place for that. My work is all words and documents, but my hope is that I get the words right so that a project does less or no harm once it is approved. Reviewing a project may seem boring, but to me each one is a puzzle to be worked out. I love figuring out puzzles. What can I do as a scientist to improve the project or understand and explain its ramifications so that it moves forward in the best way it can? What the heck will happen if the project goes forward? Do I understand the pathways for the effects, and have the designers taken them into account when they planned their project out or chose the site? I have not often been involved in projects that got stopped by a review, but I have certainly redirected MANY projects. The best is when a policy that is in place works and protects a resource whether it is a species, a habitat, or something less concrete like a flow or temperature regime. I love figuring things out and then helping others to see what I see. The key is to fit the effects pathways together so that 1. they can be understood (why should I care?), 2. they can logically lead the decisionmaker to a better choice (what should we do about that?), and 3. that choice makes a difference in the quality/ stability/perseverance of the ecosystem.
WHAT WAS THE COOLEST EXPERIENCE YOU’VE HAD WHILE WORKING IN FISHERIES?
Getting to do sampling in remote areas with awesome people. Like I said, I don’t get to get paid for this sort of thing much anymore, but I got to scout snorkeling sites in the Sierra Nevada from a helicopter flown by an enthusiastic Vietnam veteran- that was exciting (and by exciting, I mean freaking scary, yet thrilling). Gill netting alpine tundra lakes in the Beartooth Mountains from a toy raft- because you can’t haul a full-size raft up there. Wandering around eastern Montana prairies and sampling streams and wetlands in the middle of nowhere and finding lots of fish in the smallest bits of water. Sharing the inevitable oddities of fieldwork with friends and coworkers who became friends. Like the enormous, unexpected catfish we seined in the tiny pool in Flatwillow Creek; me and my 6-ft tall coworker exceeding the toy raft weight limit by quite a bit and almost sinking it in the alpine lake; being surprised by an massive elk who sounded just like a bear crashing through the willows while schlepping electrofishing equipment across a meadow and wondering if it was possible to deploy bear spray while running in waders (no, it’s not).
WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE FISH?
I do love trout because they are just beautiful and they only do well in beautiful places. However, mountain whitefish are just as fun to catch (and they’re trout too!). I also love ugly old groupers. Fathead minnows are surprisingly cute in the wild as well. Gotta love those tubercules. So- no real favorite. I love their variety and I am fascinated by their adaptability.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SHARE?
The more I did, the more I could do, the more I wanted to do, the more I saw that needed to be done.
–Lemah Gbowee (Liberian winner of the Nobel Peace Prize)
Never beg, never fetch. Always be your own dog.
– a sticker on my refrigerator. Don’t remember where I got it.
DO YOU HAVE ANY MESSAGES FOR THE WOMEN OF FISHERIES FOLLOWERS?
Hang in there. Keep pushing to make this career path better for the next cohort- not just women, everyone. Support each other and ask for it when you need support.